Not logged in. · Lost password · Register
Forum: Digital Audio Players › Rio Players RSS
Need a little help/advice from one of you guys who've used Spinrite on a Karma HD
Avatar
obscure co-star 2008-05-25, 18:18 #1
User title: lurker
Member since Apr 2007 · 70 posts · Location: Iowa
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Subject: Need a little help/advice from one of you guys who've used Spinrite on a Karma HD
I picked up Spinrite, because I figured I had enough borderline hard drives to make it worthwhile.  Since I had to do a reset on my Karma's HD, I figured I'd Spinrite the drive, just hoping to keep things optimal...

My computer's BIOS does not recognize the drive.  Spinrite does recognize it, either.

I've got a dead Karma HD here, it is the same deal. 

I'm using an adapter to go to a standard IDE cable, primary master (so no jumpers should be required).  This setup works just fine, with an ordinary NTFS hard drive. 

I'm a little annoyed, because the Spinrite manual claims it "bypasses your computer's BIOS."  Looking back on the old Riovolution site, it looks like you can use a "sector editor" to get the computer to recognize the drive... but to me, this still implies that it should appear in the BIOS first.

Am I missing something stupid??? ...or do I need to kill a chicken & dance counter-clockwise around the computer? :rolleyes:

Thanks in advance, particularly if I'm being dense.
Dude!  There's no WAY that's your daughter's favorite song!
oh, uh-oh --wait, wait... Is she in a coma???
John30_06 2008-05-25, 19:14 #2
Member since Nov 2006 · 347 posts · Location: Heartland U.S.
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Is the drive actually spinning up? Hard to tell with those mini's. I don't know what they mean about Spinrite bypassing the BIOS, although it goes way lowlevel machine-language level.  I don't think the drive needs to be formatted for it to recognize, but it does obviously need to spin up to BIOS level recognition, I would think. Obviously that drive is not NTFS, nor should it make a difference. Keep in mind the voltage difference, since regular drives pull down, what 5 volts? and that should fry these little dudes, I'd think. So you wouldn't use the power cable attachment if your adapter has one, or maybe it needs to modify to 3.3V.

 I picked up 5 of the G-series Hitachi drives(damaged, so for very little outlay) that I was toying with the same idea. I can't format them under Windows, but I was able to format the 1st one with Rio flash, and load 6-7 gigs worth on. Odd, eh? Boots and plays,but sporadically.
It tends to skip tracks when I try to play, so I don't know if it's a sector issue (spinrite) or something a lowlevel format would cure....or something worse and non-fixable.
Avatar
M0tah 2008-05-25, 21:38 #3
Member since Dec 2007 · 58 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Quote by John30_06:
Keep in mind the voltage difference, since regular drives pull down, what 5 volts? and that should fry these little dudes, I'd think. So you wouldn't use the power cable attachment if your adapter has one, or maybe it needs to modify to 3.3V.
Actually, 1.8" IDE Hitachi drives will run on either 5v or 3.3v - it doesn't matter.  See the datasheet.
Avatar
obscure co-star 2008-05-26, 02:08 #4
User title: lurker
Member since Apr 2007 · 70 posts · Location: Iowa
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
My broken HD is doing the click of death, the other one is actually working just fine.

I do intend to replace the HD with a flash memory card, eventually.  I'm putting it off as long as possible, just because the prices of larger capacities are dropping all the time & it's hard to guess when a new standard may replace SD.

Hmmmmm, sounds like I should try removing the 12v wire from the molex, just in case my adapter is using the 12...  I hope booting with the extra voltage hasn't done damage to the drive.  The "manual" for my adapter is basically a 1/2 ad, no help on specs.

Come to think of it, I've never noticed what the voltages are for various types of drives.  There must be a native voltage in the IDE cables, too.  I don't know why it would be 3.3v, but I guess it's possible.

Now I'm curious what those specs are, just because it'd be nice to think we won't be using 5000W power supplies, in a couple years.  Of course, most of that goes to the mobo/cpu and video in a computer ---but technology should get more efficient, not just more powerful. 

I'm also waiting for fiber-optic stereo speaker cables, so you can have them be a mile long, with no extra interference or signal loss.   *Sigh*  It's like waiting to be able to plug your audio/video directly into a jack in your head.  (Just imagine how many people will end up walking like in the Thriller music video, before they get that one right.)...
Dude!  There's no WAY that's your daughter's favorite song!
oh, uh-oh --wait, wait... Is she in a coma???
John30_06 2008-05-26, 08:21 #5
Member since Nov 2006 · 347 posts · Location: Heartland U.S.
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
In reply to post #3
Quote by M0tah:
Actually, 1.8" IDE Hitachi drives will run on either 5v or 3.3v - it doesn't matter.  See the datasheet.

Good to know, thanks, MOtah. I thought I'd seen someone making an issue of that difference, but maybe it was re: flash cards?

@ obscure co-star:
12 volts you don't have to worry about, I'm pretty sure. The standard molex connector with a red,black, sometimes 4 wires pulls 5, so with what MOtah says, you should be good to go in that area.
Avatar
LycoLoco 2008-05-26, 09:04 #6
User title: Your Lord and Master
Member since Jul 2006 · 953 posts · Location: Boone/Charlotte, NC
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
My broken HD is doing the click of death, the other one is actually working just fine.
Unfortunately Spinrite won't do anything about mechanical problems, so that's probably why it's not seeing it. Sorry man, that's a dead drive.
[Image: http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/840/publiconml3.png]
"Apple is like the cool, popular blonde girl at school. Who wears expensive clothing that's easily stained. And is a slutbomb." - Flatty

<macky> i think LycoLoco is drunk

[Image: http://www.xboxlc.com/cards/sig/red/LycoLoco.jpg]
Avatar
obscure co-star 2008-05-26, 13:55 #7
User title: lurker
Member since Apr 2007 · 70 posts · Location: Iowa
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Quote by LycoLoco:
Unfortunately Spinrite won't do anything about mechanical problems, so that's probably why it's not seeing it. Sorry man, that's a dead drive.

That's just it, the working drive --which I just wanted to run it on for maintenance, is detected exactly the same.

This is bugging the hell out of me.  Why does the drive I've given up on read the same as one that's functioning fine, on my computer with/without spinrite????

Either there's a problem with my set-up, or a fairly large proportion of the Spinrite "documentation" is pure BS....
Dude!  There's no WAY that's your daughter's favorite song!
oh, uh-oh --wait, wait... Is she in a coma???
Avatar
M0tah 2008-05-27, 01:46 #8
Member since Dec 2007 · 58 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Quote by John30_06:
I thought I'd seen someone making an issue of that difference, but maybe it was re: flash cards?
Probably.  With the CF card adapters people have been using, the voltage jumper has to be set to 5v, not 3.3v, which is a bit counterintuitive.  However, it makes sense if you think about it.  The CF card can take either 5v or 3.3v and the adapter is meant to be used in laptops, which supply 5v to the HDD.  Setting the jumper on the adapter to 5v passes the current through untouched; setting it to 3.3v passes it through a 3.3v regulator.  However, Karmas deliver 3.3v to the HDD, not 5v.  If the 3.3v regulator was fed 3.3v, the actual voltage coming out would be less than 3.3v and it wouldn't be enough to drive the CF card.  Thus the jumper on the adapter must be set to 5v so the voltage is left as it is, 3.3v, and the CF card gets what it needs.
jerryfreak 2008-09-25, 18:05 #9
Member since Jan 2007 · 6 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
ive used spinrite on several karma drives that were starting to fail (hanging the karma). they work fine afterwards in a laptop or external case, but i wouldnt put it back in the karma, as its doomed to fail.

it its cicking/wont spin up, forget it. spinrite wont help
John30_06 2008-09-25, 19:15 #10
Member since Nov 2006 · 347 posts · Location: Heartland U.S.
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
 I've used it on 2 drives that had bad sectors. It said it flagged the 1 with numerous bad sectors in the 1st 5 gigs, but the drive still had numerous write errors & fails (under Windows, so assume the same as a karma drive). I gave up trying to just fill the 1st 5 gigs with useless data, even tho it indicated the rest of the drive was in good shape.

 The 2nd drive had an apparently massive area of unfixable drive space begining at gig5. Spinrite began trying to retrieve data and I suppose it was marking bad sectors, but it took so many hours on that drive that I gave up for fear of burning up the laptop I had the drive in. It's processor-intensive, and this is an old enough laptop to have a floppy drive.

In short, Spinrite did absolutely nothing of value on those 2 drives. It's possible I could have missed setting it to flag bad sectors, but I'm pretty sure that's automatic.
 I have a 3rd that I've hesitated to try it on.
Close Smaller – Larger + Reply to this post:
Verification code: VeriCode Please note the verification code from the picture into the text field next to it.
Smileys: :-) ;-) :-D :-p :blush: :cool: :rolleyes: :huh: :-/ <_< :-( :'( :#: :scared: 8-( :nuts: :-O
Special characters:

Go to forum
This board is powered by the Unclassified NewsBoard software, 1.6.4, © 2003-7 by Yves Goergen
Current time: 2009-01-06, 15:22:01 (UTC -07:00)