How to put ZIF Drives in the Karma: a guide

MrNibbles 2008-01-23, 07:03 #16

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In reply to post ID 12353
Subject: victory!

So ive had the karma running like this for over a week now, its faster and more reliable than ever! ive uploaded a little youtube video so you can see the speed, and the additional size
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2f1yiwG860
thanks again
sorry for the crappy video....

M0tah

2008-01-23, 17:59 #17

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Nice, I like the tape, it adds personality to your Karma.

I also am somewhat concerned about perhaps damaging some components because of the pressure in the case (it doesn't have as much pressure as it was before with the bulging battery, however). But I think that most of the pressure is concentrated on the bottom sides of the HDD, where it hits the curved sides of the case. The HDD's metal case seems pretty sturdy though, so I'm not worrying too much.

Quote by MrNibbles:
sorry for the crappy video....

I disagree, I like the video. It's good.

PS: nice job on the modification, it doesn't actually look too bad. Is the original back still on or is it all replaced with something else?

This post was edited on 2008-01-23, 18:40 by M0tah.

MrNibbles 2008-01-24, 11:16 #18

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thanks! i wish i had the time to make a proper back for this! (although i quite like the tape!)

Is the original back still on or is it all replaced with something else?

I am using the original case, i removed all the padding/spacing in the back, and i have placed (slightly spongy) plastic strips between the two halves to space it out, and also give it a bit of shock resistance.

I think with your layout you shouldn't have too much of an issue with the pressure, as you say it is all put on the edges of the drive which should be rock solid!
overall, I'm very pleased with it. This drive is clearly miles better than the original, ive not had a single skip or read error even when its been in my pocket!

I will however take it out in a few months and run Spinrite to fix up the bad sectors (which are bound to happen eventually!) I haven't seen it mentioned on the boards here, but i have fixed multiple Karma's bad drives in this way (i resurrected my old karma drive 3 times with this method) it does however mean you need a converter from the standard type IDE (and now one for ZIF!), and you need to buy spinrite, but if your into this stuff you should have that already

m0tah, couldnt have done it without ya

cheers!

edit: oh and the 2 platters in the drive seem to be sucking up a little more power than before... but the loss is marginal.. perhaps im playing more flac than usual!

This post was edited on 2008-01-24, 11:26 by MrNibbles.

KyleWilson 2008-02-07, 08:14 #19

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Wowie... I am glad I found this. I got that same adapter for Xmas, and have been struggling to get it to work ever Since. I have always beenable to get the player to start with the drive attached, but I did not know about recovery mode.

For 2 months I have been trying to use the adapter to get My PC to recognize the HDD to no avail. Tonight, i will attempt recoverymode and just have the rio do its thing.
My replacement drive is a hitachi 30gb Zif connection..

As far as I can tell, with the stock battery, this drive is small enough to fit in the player with out too much effort.
I will update to night, thank you for your invaluable information

Kyle

karmalimbo 2008-02-15, 23:15 #20

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In reply to post ID 12086

Man, you just saved me a lot of aggravation. I sourced some ribbon cables to connect to the ZIF socket on the Toshiba drive I have, but have been procrastinating the job of connecting the cable to the IDE connector on my Karma main board. It was going to be no fun at all. When I first started looking into using ZIF drives, all the adapters were big and bulky. For once procrastination pays off! Now I can order what I need from ebay for only $4.95! Nice.

Excellent work!

Jim T.

KyleWilson 2008-02-21, 08:24 #21

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Hmmm. I got my new LCD last night. I remodded the adapter like in the OP to receive the correct voltage. Still wont work, I have the cables facing the correct way, and the adapter in properly... The updater DOES see the karma and tries to connect, but it fails. It says "Bad Karma" half on the time on the screen, sometimes it says plug in usb/ run updater; like it should... UGH who knows....

More info tonight; as I did get an error, but I did not write it down

jerryfreak 2008-03-08, 19:25 #22

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Stupid questions. I want to try this on my Rio. After having four of these I'm convinced the HD doesn't break, but rather, was made broken.

were you using the older series f series drives, or the newer g series drives. ive never seen a g-series fail (out of a dozen or more)

and as we know, the f series has a terrible track record.

ccristal 2008-03-16, 14:22 #23

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Hi!
Has anyone tried this drive: http://www.sdd.toshiba.com/main.aspx?Path=HardDrivesOptica…? Is there any reason - in principle - why it shouldn't work with the Karma?
That would allow me to have all my music collection in FLAC on my Karma. That would be awesome!
Also... that drive is supposed to be only 8mm high, as opposed to the 9.5mm of the C4K60 double-platter series. Will I still need to dremel the Karma case?

Thank you!

ccristal

M0tah

2008-03-16, 19:37 #24

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The drive you linked to does not seem to have a ZIF interface - it instead has an older interface that doesn't have adapters that are small enough/in the right configuration to fit in a Karma, so it will not work.

The Hard Drive Replacement page over at the Rockbox site is an excellent resource to find drives that should work with the ZIF adapter. Any drives listed with a "ZIF 40" connector should work. So far, Toshiba and Hitachi drives with ZIF connectors have been used successfully; no Samsung or Seagate drives have been tested.

You will need to do some dremeling and/or battery downsizing to get the drive to fit. I put a smaller battery in to compensate for the space taken up by the ZIF adapter and I still needed to dremel the back of the case to fit everything in. MrNibbles instead kept the original battery and modified the back of the case so there was more room inside of his Karma for everything.

I was browsing the Samsung site a little while ago and found a new line of small 1.3" HDDs they are coming out with. It looks like they have some with a ZIF interface, which might work with the adapter. Because of their smaller size compared to 1.8" drives, they might even be able to be used without modifying the case or putting a smaller battery in. I can't find much information on the drives, though.

@KyleWilson: Any update on your situation? You said that you were going to post the error codes, but you never did. When you get an error, does the HDD spin up? If it does not, it suggests that getting power to the drive is flaky or that the drive never receives the command to spin up. If it does spin up, the connection could be bad or you could have gotten a defective HDD.

@Jim T.: I'm assuming you were going to try and do something similar to what this fellow did to fit one in his iriver? In any case, thanks for the compliments and hope your conversion goes smoothly.

KyleWilson 2008-03-17, 07:53 #25

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@KyleWilson: Any update on your situation? You said that you were going to post the error codes, but you never did. When you get an error, does the HDD spin up? If it does not, it suggests that getting power to the drive is flaky or that the drive never receives the command to spin up. If it does spin up, the connection could be bad or you could have gotten a defective HDD.

M0tah... I have not tried since then, i have been Super busy. I dont want to say that I have given up, but I bought a new Working Karma... The HDD Does Spin; although I should say it whines. It doesnt do anything after that though, the computer recognizes it, but cannot connect, so I am assuming I have a bad cable, or it is upside down or something, who knows... I am in the process of moving and working 60 hours a week, as well as starting a new job, so it hasnt been a huge priority; although, I hope to get back at it soon

jerryfreak 2008-03-17, 12:09 #26

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In reply to post #18

i too have used spinrite to ressurect drives, but i cant recall one resurrected original F-series drive that could play all the way thru the contents of a drive without freezing. Granted it may be one spot on the drive, bu it will catch it.

by contrast, the newer 'G' series drives will pass this test with flying colors, playing everytrack on a newly loaded full karma without a hitch.

Quote by MrNibbles on 2008-01-24, 11:16:
I will however take it out in a few months and run Spinrite to fix up the bad sectors (which are bound to happen eventually!) I haven't seen it mentioned on the boards here, but i have fixed multiple Karma's bad drives in this way (i resurrected my old karma drive 3 times with this method) it does however mean you need a converter from the standard type IDE (and now one for ZIF!), and you need to buy spinrite, but if your into this stuff you should have that already

ccristal 2008-03-19, 06:19 #27

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In reply to post #24

I recommend using a battery that already has a protection circuit board attached to it, such as a battery for a Sony Clie NX70VL, which has the same dimensions (found thanks to this post on the old Riovolution). If you decide to use a battery that already has a protection board, you can simply soldier it to the power daughterboard in place of the old battery. However, if the battery you get does not have a protection board, you’ll have to use the board off of the old battery pack.

Ok... I got one of those Cameron Sino batteries from here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Replacement-for-Rio-Karma-20G-MP3-Batt…. Now, my question is: does this battery have a built-in protection board, or do I need to take it from the old battery?

Thank you!

ccristal

John30_06 2008-03-19, 13:29 #28

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Quote by ccristal:
Ok... I got one of those Cameron Sino batteries from here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Replacement-for-Rio-Karma-20G-MP3-Batt…. Now, my question is: does this battery have a built-in protection board, or do I need to take it from the old battery?

Thank you!

ccristal

You'll solder it to your original power/daughterboard at the same spots the old one was. Make sure and get the colors (wire) right. The new battery lead wires should be plenty long enough.
Easiest way is to melt the points with a solder iron until you can pull the old one off, heat the solder again, and insert the new lead at the same angle as the one you took off. Steady as she goes, and don't worry if you don't get it the 1st or 2nd time.
If you've got a little steady-holder with alligator clips to hold the daughterboard, it's much easier.

Oh, sorry, never mind. I misread your original post. Is there no way to simply delete a duff post?

M0tah

2008-03-19, 15:31 #29

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Quote by ccristal:
does this battery have a built-in protection board, or do I need to take it from the old battery?

Yes, that battery already does have a protection board - you can see it poking through the plastic covering of the battery assembly on the side where the wires come out like on the original battery. Most, if not all, replacement batteries come with a protection board already attached to the cells.

wakarimasen 2008-04-19, 06:28 #30

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Hello Folks,
Is this the right kind of adaptor?

http://cgi.ebay.com/iPod-TOSHIBA-1-8-ZIF-Hard-drive-HDD-to…
Best regards,
RoyM

tap tap tap...