Not logged in. · Lost password · Register
Forum: Digital Audio Players › Rio Players RSS
How to put ZIF Drives in the Karma: a guide
Yes, it is possible
Page:  1  2  3  4  next ›
Avatar
M0tah 2007-12-30, 16:45 #1
Member since Dec 2007 · 58 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Subject: How to put ZIF Drives in the Karma: a guide
This mod was conceived of because of my want of a DAP with the features of a Karma but with larger storage space.  Because of the shortage of Hitachi 1.8" 44-pin drives, I decided to do some research on whether it was possible to use a different type of HDD in the Karma. 
I pondered putting Toshiba HDDs with 50-pin connectors (which I think are the same as those used on CF cards) in the Karma, but they were too long.  I realized that the only HDDs that had a chance of fitting in the Karma were the newer ZIF drives.  But there were no adapters suitable for use in the Karma. 
I finally found some adapters on eBay that fit the bill – they had the right kind of connector to fit directly into the Karma’s HDD connector and came with a ZIF cable that was long enough to allow the drive to be put in a different direction than that of the adapter.  And the HDDs that could be used with it were in no danger of disappearing any time soon – they were used in the amazingly popular other DAP that we won’t mention here.
There are a few modifications you need to do to the Karma in order for it to work in it, but I think that it’s worth it if you want a larger Karma.  You’ll need to modify the ZIF adapter, replace the battery, and dremel the back of the case in order for it to all work.
Parts needed: A ZIF to 44-pin adapter, listed on eBay as a "1.8 toshiba ZIF Hard drive to 2.5 IDE Adapter", and a compatible ZIF HDD, which should be all 1.8 inch, 40-pin ZIF drives.  Seagate, Hitachi, Samsung, and Toshiba make what seem to be compatible drives.
Drives that have been tested and work: Toshiba mk8009gah (M0tah), Hitachi C4K60 Slim 60 GB (MrNibbles, video of result here, model should be HTC426060G8CE00)
Equipment needed: soldiering iron, cutting implement, dremeling tool, and screwdriver(s).

Modifying the ZIF adapter
Because the ZIF adapter has a 3.3v regulator to step down the 5v it expects to receive to 3.3v, you will need to bypass it.  Otherwise the voltage delivered to the ZIF drive will be less than 3.3v and the drive will not work.  The regulator is located on the left of the adapter and has "AMS1117" printed on it.
  • Remove the regulator by desoldiering it or by simply cutting the leads.
  • Bridge the two pads on the bottom middle/right of where the regulator used to be (looking at the board in the same direction as the writing on the regulator).  This will directly connect the output from the Karma to the HDD.
  • Make sure that the third pad on the left is not bridged; this is negative and the other two are positive.
  • Hook the ZIF drive up to the adapter, plug it into the mainboard, and boot up your Karma in recovery mode (hold the menu button and then press the power button).  You should see a screen like that below, with the model of the HDD you are using in place of “toshiba mk8009gah.”
  • (optional) Also desoldier the LED (located diagonally up and right of the regulator), which lights up when it receives power.  Doing this will increase the battery life of the Karma, but probably not by much.  (Note: I have not tested doing this.)
[Image: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/64/img2416lx6.jpg]
The modified ZIF adapter.
[Image: http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/751/img2390dd4.jpg]
The recovery mode screen.

The battery
The replacement battery will need to have dimensions of 66x35x5 mm (LxWxH), although the length of the battery can change a bit.  I used a Tenergy brand battery purchased from www.all-battery.com with a capacity of 1300 mAh, however, I recommend using a battery that already has a protection circuit board attached to it, such as a battery for a Sony Clie NX70VL, which has the same dimensions (found thanks to this post on the old Riovolution).  If you decide to use a battery that already has a protection board, you can simply soldier it to the power daughterboard in place of the old battery.  However, if the battery you get does not have a protection board, you’ll have to use the board off of the old battery pack.  To do so,
  • Remove the plastic covering of the battery pack.
  • You should see a PCB glued to the side of the battery cells.  Start pulling it off, and when there is enough clearance, cut the plastic holding it in place.  The plastic should also contain leads to the two li-ion cells. 
  • Once you have cut the PCB free, it is a matter of removing the remainder of the leads to the PCB.  You should be able to remove most of the leads around where they are connected to the PCB, however, you don’t need to completely remove them.
  • Desoldier the small metal plates from the pads.  Each plate is soldiered to two pads on the PCB.  Luckily, the battery cells only need to be soldiered to one of each pair of pads, as they are connected internally.  The negative and positive pads are in the same order as the output to the power daughterboard from the PCB.
  • Make sure not to touch the leads of the battery together, shorting the battery.  This can be dangerous.
[Image: http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/9950/img2397jz2.jpg]
A view of the original battery without its cover.
[Image: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3913/img2400ra9.jpg]
Another view of the original battery.
[Image: http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5218/img2401cfl9.jpg]
The polarity of the battery protection board.
[Image: http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1606/img2406hs2.jpg]
The metal plates soldiered to the input pads on the protection board.
[Image: http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6684/img2412ty2.jpg]
A close up of the attached battery protection board.
[Image: http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5334/img2407ae7.jpg]
The finished battery/power module.

The case
Since the HDD will be residing in the back of the case instead of against the mainboard as it typically is, you will need to dremel the back of the case a bit in order to make it fit. 
Get rid of all of the nubs that held the battery in place and also get rid of the plastic that held the metal piece.  Finally, dremel the plastic sticking up in the bottom right of the back and the small bit sticking up next to the upper right nub.  The HDD should go in the back so that the curved part of the HDD case below the disks is at the bottom.
[Image: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2191/caseen4.jpg]
What you need to get rid of on the back of the case. (Picture courtesy of Karma Limbo)

(Guide continued in post 2 because of the 10,000 character limit.)
This post was edited 2 times, last on 2008-01-23, 19:02 by M0tah.
Avatar
M0tah 2007-12-30, 16:47 #2
Member since Dec 2007 · 58 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Subject: Part 2
Putting it all together
It’s probably easiest to connect everything up and then position it in the Karma.  You should also put electrical tape over the adapter board and the battery protection board so the pins don’t have a chance to be shorted.  I connected everything up, put the mainboard in the front of the case, and then taped the temperature sensor to the side of the battery, which should be positioned next to the adapter – there’s just enough room for it.  In order for the ZIF drive to fit in the case, the ZIF cable needs to be bent where it connects to the HDD.  This will allow the drive to sink down into the back of the case and give the cable enough slack to fold. 
Because of the absence of the HDD in the back of the mainboard, you’ll need to figure out a way to secure the LCD in place.  I used one screw near the back of the battery (bottom right screw hole, looking at the LCD so you could read it if it was turned on), which was enough to hold it.
Once you have assembled the front of the Karma, put it together by hooking the left side of the Karma together and hinging the case shut.  You may need to reposition the HDD while doing this to ensure a good fit.  It should be pretty tight, and you’ll probably need to apply some pressure to get it to close, assuming you’re using a Toshiba 7mm high ZIF drive.  Assemble it the rest of the way, following the excellent instructions over at Karma Limbo.
[Image: http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/8233/img2420zc8.jpg]
The bent ZIF cable.
[Image: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/917/img2429gx4.jpg]
The arrangement of components in the case.

The result
So far my Karma hasn’t had any problems, but I’ve only used it like this for about a week.  The battery life is over six hours when playing FLAC files, which is fine for my needs.  One annoying thing this has caused is the external buttons on the upper left of the case not contacting the internal buttons.  I need to press down on the case there for them to work, but I think this is because of the stripped screw holes that hold the mainboard in place, so there shouldn’t be any problems if the case you use isn’t messed up. 
One other good thing that has happened as a result of this mod is the absence of HDD noise in the headphone output. 
[Image: http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8025/img2430uz8.jpg]
[Image: http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5784/img2434ug1.jpg]
[Image: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1637/img2433sy2.jpg]
[Image: http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4687/rmmzm2.png]

Well, that’s it.  I hope that you’ve found this guide to be helpful.  Happy modding!  :)

A PDF of this guide is also available.
This post was edited 2 times, last on 2008-01-23, 21:42 by M0tah.
thasp 2007-12-30, 18:09 #3
Member since Dec 2007 · 7 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Stupid questions. I want to try this on my Rio. After having four of these I'm convinced the HD doesn't break, but rather, was made broken.

Are you putting the new battery in just for the fuck of it, or because you need the extra space from a smaller battery?

Where is the voltage regulator on that card? You said bottom right, but in the picture, I see bridged solder connections on the left.

I did a search on allbattery.com and didn't find the tenergy pl-503465. Where did you?
This post was edited on 2007-12-30, 18:16 by thasp.
Avatar
M0tah 2007-12-30, 20:43 #4
Member since Dec 2007 · 58 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Quote by "thasp":
Are you putting the new battery in just for the fuck of it, or because you need the extra space from a smaller battery?
The new battery frees up space for the adapter.

Quote by "thasp":
Where is the voltage regulator on that card? You said bottom right, but in the picture, I see bridged solder connections on the left.
The voltage regulator is on the left of the ZIF adapter - I was referring to the pads that needed to be bridged when I said bottom right.  I guess I'll clarify that.

Quote by "thasp":
I did a search on allbattery.com and didn't find the tenergy pl-503465. Where did you?
It's the battery on this page.
thasp 2007-12-30, 22:18 #5
Member since Dec 2007 · 7 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
So the only way to get this player to work is to decrease battery life. :(
This post was edited on 2007-12-31, 03:47 by thasp.
Avatar
M0tah 2007-12-31, 01:01 #6
Member since Dec 2007 · 58 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
I believe so, but you might be able to get pretty close to the original battery life if you use a 5mm high ZIF drive instead of a 8mm high one and fit a bigger battery in.  On the other hand, it appeared that the curved sides of the back of the case prevented the HDD from sinking any further into the back - there was around a mm of space behind the HDD when it was fully pushed into the back.  So if you used a 5mm high HDD, you might be able to put two batteries into the Karma - one in the position shown in the guide and one behind the HDD.  It would have to be 4 mm high (or 3mm to ensure a fit), but it could otherwise be the same dimensions as the original battery.  So around 60x45x3-4 mm LxWxH.

Looking at the batteries, I think it's certainly possible to pull this off.  If you can't find a suitable size battery, you can always combine two battery cells like what was done in the original Karma battery.  These batteries seem to be around the right size and they are exactly the height difference of the drives, 3 mm.  Compared to the original battery, which was around 1700 mAh, the combination of the batteries would actually be of greater capacity than the original battery (430+430+1300=2160 mAh), assuming that the ratings are comparable. 

If you're able to find the right size batteries with battery protection boards already attached, then you wouldn't have to use the board from your Karma's battery.  I didn't mind using the protection board from mine because the battery was bulging and it couldn't power the Karma properly as a result of it - the voltage from the battery would dip whenever the HDD spun up, prompting the Karma to shut down before the battery was depleted.
John30_06 2007-12-31, 04:54 #7
Member since Nov 2006 · 347 posts · Location: Heartland U.S.
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Sweeeeeeeet! Nice camera work too! :cool:
javamon 2008-01-01, 20:24 #8
Member since Jan 2008 · 14 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
A note on the battery:  I grabbed one of the batteries from ebay that karmalimbo had good luck with.  It hasn't arrived yet, but if anyone else wants to try as well:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.…?ViewItem&item=320…

I think I'm going to try a flash conversion myself, although I did pick up one of the rare original drives from hypermicro.
John30_06 2008-01-03, 06:25 #9
Member since Nov 2006 · 347 posts · Location: Heartland U.S.
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
In reply to post #2
Admins, can this guide be stickied, please? Motah's done a wonderful bit of hackery, imo in offering yet one more way to prolong Karma's.
mocelet 2008-01-06, 06:49 #10
Member since Nov 2007 · 34 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Have you noticed the C3K80 series of drives from Hitachi? Up to 80GB on 2 platters, and 40GB on one. It looks like they will fit in a Karma as well.

ZIF only though, however this is not a showstopper anymore.
Avatar
M0tah 2008-01-06, 21:08 #11
Member since Dec 2007 · 58 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Quote by mocelet:
Have you noticed the C3K80 series of drives from Hitachi? Up to 80GB on 2 platters, and 40GB on one. It looks like they will fit in a Karma as well.

ZIF only though, however this is not a showstopper anymore.
Quote by M0tah:
Seagate, Hitachi, Samsung, and Toshiba make what seem to be compatible drives, but I have only tested it with a Toshiba ZIF drive.
Also, it seems as though the cheapest drives are Toshibas, probably because of their availability.  The Hitachi drives don't seem to be widely available yet, and neither do the Samsungs.  However, it looks like Seagate's 1.8" drives may be a good choice if battery life is more important than storage space - they make 60 GB 5mm high (one platter) ZIF drives that sell for reasonable prices.

Toshiba also has single platter 60 and 80 GB drives, shown on their 1.8" drive page.  Their 80 GB single platter drive isn't widely available yet and it also seems to be pretty expensive where it is sold.  However, their 60 GB single plater drive is reasonably priced.

A note for anyone who wants to try using a 5mm high ZIF drive and putting more battery cells behind it: The temperature of the cells cannot be monitored, which may be a problem.  I don't know if it will or not because I'm not sure of the function of the battery temperature sensor.
MrNibbles 2008-01-09, 16:23 #12
Member since Jan 2008 · 4 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
thank you SO MUCH for this fantastic guide.

i am in the process of adding ZIF drive compatibility to my karma!!!!!

ooh i could kiss you
Avatar
M0tah 2008-01-09, 19:28 #13
Member since Dec 2007 · 58 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
No problem, I'm glad someone finds it useful.  If you have any questions, feel free to ask them.  Tell us how it turns out!
jaytee 2008-01-09, 22:44 #14
Member since Dec 2007 · 12 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
In reply to post #11
Quote by M0tah on 2008-01-06, 21:08:
A note for anyone who wants to try using a 5mm high ZIF drive and putting more battery cells behind it: The temperature of the cells cannot be monitored, which may be a problem.  I don't know if it will or not because I'm not sure of the function of the battery temperature sensor.
I think the temperature sensor is there to prevent battery leakage or explosion if the battery is overcharged or if for some other reason, it gets too hot.
C4K60 30 gig Karma + Shure SE530s = audio bliss
MrNibbles 2008-01-14, 13:45 #15
Member since Jan 2008 · 4 posts
Group memberships: Members
Show profile · Link to this post
Subject: Karma fattie
Thanks again!

the whole process was pretty straight forward.. i did not however order a smaller battery and merely added about 1cm to the depth of the karma, using some electrical shielding material to lay the drive flat over the adapter, with the battery behind it (the opposite way around from the method posted)

The two sides of the shell are held together with beautiful looking tape (which is funky colours) so its a little on the punky side... but it works a charm - and hopefully no loss in batt life

One thing i will point out however, i could not get the device to flash the firmware initially (timeout), but when i chose to upgrade the firmware without the drive format it worked correctly and i was able to perform the format from the Music Manager.
I think this may have something to do with the time it takes to format the much larger drive, causing the firmware updater to timeout before the format is complete.

i can post a pic or two if desired (although it pales in comparison to the beautiful work seen so far)
im in the process of filling it with 50+Gb of music to see how much affect it has on the performance!
thanks again

edit: Oh and to get it to fit the dock, i took the dock apart and removed the white plastic support, then added a couple of spacers for the screws that attach the connector to the inside of the base so that the karma was flush with the base of the dock when it was inserted.

second edit: i suspect the Firmware update format only writes the boot sector at the start of the disk (doesn't 0 it), so im not sure why it didn't take the first time... oh well seems to be going ok still
This post was edited 4 times, last on 2008-01-23, 07:03 by MrNibbles.
Close Smaller – Larger + Reply to this post:
Verification code: VeriCode Please note the verification code from the picture into the text field next to it.
Smileys: :-) ;-) :-D :-p :blush: :cool: :rolleyes: :huh: :-/ <_< :-( :'( :#: :scared: 8-( :nuts: :-O
Special characters:
Page:  1  2  3  4  next ›

Go to forum
This board is powered by the Unclassified NewsBoard software, 1.6.4, © 2003-7 by Yves Goergen
Current time: 2009-01-06, 17:14:31 (UTC -07:00)