Karma battery replacement source

John30_06

2007-01-26, 10:30 #1

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Subject: Karma battery replacement source

I've seen more than a few threads with people dreading the day their Li-Ion batteries are no longer feasible.....and no good replacement source out there. Some guys are going with Li-Poly, which would seem to be acceptable, although they maybe take longer to charge?

I recently noticed a guy on ebay offering very cheap replacement batteries- from HK, so take that fwiw, but he has excellent feedback. For $12 plus about 5 bucks shipping, I figured what the feh, and ordered one for my backup Karma, which is down to around 4 hours playtime between charges, what with the predominant flac usage, crossfade, EQ that I favor.
Turnaround order & shipping to the States less than a week. Listed on Hong Kong customs stamp as "electronic gift". haw.

So, when I got some time, I took the little bugger apart yet again, hotted up the two contact solder points, and swapped out the wires, at "about" the same angle into the solder. It even had some charge in it to begin with, so th' little dude woke up playing during surgery. :-p

These rate at the same 3.7 voltage, but slightly higher 1800 mAmps, iirc. Fully charged, it holds a charge for around 12 hours, which considering the way I tweak it out, is totally acceptable.
http://tinyurl.com/2uvyhv
This guy, http://stores.ebay.com/LicketySplitAuctions also has batteries for older iPods, Zen, iRiver, etc.

jaw2ek 2007-01-26, 13:10 #2

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Hey, thanks for trying these out. I've been looking at these for a couple of weeks. My Karma's down to 3 hours. You get 12 hours out of 1800mah? Isn't this more than stock?.

Really, just asking. I don't know anything about batteries.

If I had a signature, think I'd share it with YOU?

John30_06

2007-01-27, 09:02 #3

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Quote by jaw2ek:
Hey, thanks for trying these out. I've been looking at these for a couple of weeks. My Karma's down to 3 hours. You get 12 hours out of 1800mah? Isn't this more than stock?.

Really, just asking. I don't know anything about batteries.

I think I recall stock being rated at around a phenomenal 15-18 hours. Like everything else, ymmv according to what codecs you mainly play, how you tweak it out, etc. I'm pretty sure that was the rating when Karma's first were benched playing mp3's, with little or no EQ, crossfading, etc. Apparently flac and even ogg are more processor intensive algorithms, and EQ and crossfading likewise will shorten your battery charge time.
So that 12 hours is totally unofficial.

There's also a burn-in school, who swear the batteries have memories that have to be maxed the first time you charge it, although I thought that issue was fixed years ago with lithium batteries- it supposedly was with my cordless tools....maybe I'm thinking Ni-Cad. This particular replacement battery already had a good charge, so again....

It's also possible that when you bought yours "new", the battery had been sitting for a year already. I've heard, although I can't swear, that they begin degrading as soon as they leave the factory.

krazykit (Administrator) 2007-01-27, 11:59 #4

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Quote by John30_06:
Apparently flac and even ogg are more processor intensive algorithms, and EQ and crossfading likewise will shorten your battery charge time. So that 12 hours is totally unofficial.

EQing hurts battery life, Vorbis hurts battery life (decoding is harder), FLAC hurts battery life (spins up the disk more). Having the volume on 30 is much worse than 29, according to a post from peter that I recall reading on .com.

There's also a burn-in school, who swear the batteries have memories that have to be maxed the first time you charge it, although I thought that issue was fixed years ago with lithium batteries- it supposedly was with my cordless tools....maybe I'm thinking Ni-Cad. This particular replacement battery already had a good charge, so again....

Wikipedia says LIon and LiPoly batteries don't suffer from memory at all and that newer NiCD suffer drastically less.

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jaw2ek 2007-01-27, 20:06 #5

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Quote by John30_06:
Quote by jaw2ek:
You get 12 hours out of 1800mah? Isn't this more than stock?.

I think I recall stock being rated at around a phenomenal 15-18 hours.

The original Karma battery is 1600mah. That's why I was wondering about the 1800mah one. I bought my Karma used and have never got more than maybe 8-10 out of it. In fact, most of my music is vorbis and I know this is why my battery goes so quick.

If I had a signature, think I'd share it with YOU?

John30_06

2007-01-27, 20:23 #6

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Quote by jaw2ek:
Quote by John30_06:
Quote by jaw2ek:
You get 12 hours out of 1800mah? Isn't this more than stock?.

I think I recall stock being rated at around a phenomenal 15-18 hours.

The original Karma battery is 1600mah. That's why I was wondering about the 1800mah one. I bought my Karma used and have never got more than maybe 8-10 out of it. In fact, most of my music is vorbis and I know this is why my battery goes so quick.

I was thinking the original was 1700mah. Looking at the battery I pulled, it only has a P/N and the 3.7 voltage listed. Also the date of manufacture, which was 16/07/04, not quite 2 years old. Byd company of China.

I'd say 99% of my music is pretty evenly divided flac or high-bitrate vorbis. I may have 1 cd total that's mp3.

John30_06

2007-01-27, 20:39 #7

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Quote by krazykit:
EQing hurts battery life, Vorbis hurts battery life (decoding is harder), FLAC hurts battery life (spins up the disk more). Having the volume on 30 is much worse than 29, according to a post from peter that I recall reading on .com.

Yes, that's the price we pay, and well worth it. I never have the normal volume very high, and EQ'ing up would increase volume. I've been using lossless since the first iterations of monkeysaudio and flac came out.
I can often tell the difference between even high bitrate vorbis and lossless, so a DAP that plays lossless is a dream come true.
If the Rio engineers had gone with MPC instead of WMA originally, then I'd personally call it the perfect DAP, instead of the best one ever built. Small distinction.

Wikipedia says LIon and LiPoly batteries don't suffer from memory at all and that newer NiCD suffer drastically less.

I'd like to believe it, but I'm not betting a battery life based on wikipedia. I've seen too many knowledgeable posters on the Rio boards say otherwise. Jury's out, imo.
Jimmy Thompson, the karmalimbo engineer was just telling me how he does a burn-in with the Karma's he rebuilds as a matter of course. I respect his opinion is why I mentioned it.

flattop100 2007-01-28, 20:06 #8

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I think I recall stock being rated at around a phenomenal 15-18 hours.

I could have sworn that original claimed battery life was 6-8 hours. Or maybe that's just what I get.

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patches11 2007-01-28, 23:04 #9

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The only "memory" that LiIon batteries suffer from is that of the device they are powering. Many LiIon-powered devices keep track of battery voltage for a given load so that they can provide a more accurate indication of how much life is left in the battery. The Karma I don't believe is such a device, but laptops are notable for this. This is why it's still not a bad idea to fully cycle the device once so that it has an accurate starting point. With the Karma this should be totally pointless.

NiCd and NiMH batteries do still suffer from some memory effects, and so it is good to periodically cycle them completely. With LiIon batteries, however, it's actually BAD to discharge them below about 20%. Only power cycle a LiIon if you want to calibrate any relevant battery meter. It is otherwise absolutely needless, unless of course you're trying to make that last phone call or finish a paragraph or two on your report...

The stock rated life on the box is 16 hours with 15 volume, no EQ/crossfade, only 128k MP3, backlight off, no UI interaction. As found on the "1000 things" list, which also said that the developers often hit 18 hours during testing.