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ipods are gapless...
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crunchyfrog (Moderator) 2006-09-12, 15:45 #16
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In reply to post ID 2568
Will they have to redo Rockbox for the 6G iPods?  Cuz I'd seriously consider going iPod+Rockbox if it meant having 80GB.
...because I am not a Special Snowflake.
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Highnoon 2006-09-12, 15:57 #17
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Quote by crunchyfrog:
Will they have to redo Rockbox for the 5.5G iPods?  Cuz I'd seriously consider going iPod+Rockbox if it meant having 80GB

Fixed.  This new iPod is definitely not worth another whole "G".  Half a "G" is more like it.
The 6G iPod will be the widescreen one with the virtual clickwheel and the Wi-fi and the 10 hour battery life for video.
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LycoLoco 2006-09-12, 16:35 #18
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The jury seems to still be out on this one. Honestly, I wouldn't mind getting a 5g with the upgraded firmware, just as long as it DOES gapless and isn't this bullshit workaround (like Apple has always done with gapless)

Edit: Looks like it's a horribly shitty bullshit workaround reading the tales over at DAPReview.net

Oh my God ... the "gapless analysis" finished and there is horrible distortion in my tracks playing through iTunes ... I hope to God this isn't permanently in my files ...

Double Edit:
Leave it to Apple to find some ass-backwards way to implement gapless. Just like with 'bookmarks' it has to be MANAGED by iTunes. No wonder they can make the ipod so thin: there's nothin' in there; it's all in iTunes.
Ahhahahahhah!
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"Apple is like the cool, popular blonde girl at school. Who wears expensive clothing that's easily stained. And is a slutbomb." - Flatty

<macky> i think LycoLoco is drunk

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This post was edited 2 times, last on 2006-09-12, 19:17 by LycoLoco.
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Einkoro (Administrator) 2006-09-12, 19:44 #19
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From what I seen on hydrogenaudio forums:

You do not have to flag the albums as gapless in iTunes. That option is there if you use the crossfader and it will disable crossfading when its enabled on the iPod. Otherwise, with the crossfader disabled it will play back gapless.

However, there is apparently still a ~20ms audiable gap. Better than before but still a gap.
"There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others," - Niccolo Machiavelli
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LycoLoco 2006-09-12, 20:16 #20
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Audible Gap != Gapless. Thanks Apple.
[Image: http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/840/publiconml3.png]
"Apple is like the cool, popular blonde girl at school. Who wears expensive clothing that's easily stained. And is a slutbomb." - Flatty

<macky> i think LycoLoco is drunk

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crunchyfrog (Moderator) 2006-09-12, 21:02 #21
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Thanks for the clarification, Ankle... I obviously didn't get far enough into the thread. 

So sad.  I thought for a millisecond today that this might finally be it.  Wah.
...because I am not a Special Snowflake.
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vince 2006-09-12, 23:21 #22
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I've been waiting for today's announcements.  Not because I wanted a widescreen video iPod, but because I figured that stores would be clearing out the old ones.  Sure enough, the 60 gig 5G iPod is $299 while supplies last.  And as you know, it's Rockbox compatible.

[Image: http://content.imagesocket.com/images/rockbox_5ga3f.jpg]

Mass storage, hassle-free gapless, FLAC and Vorbis support.  It sounds amazing with the hardware equalizer enabled.  Hell of a deal, too.
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nudel 2006-09-13, 02:50 #23
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There is no audible gap on iTunes-encoded AAC files at least. I converted my usual pair of test Tool tracks from WMA Lossless to AAC via drag & drop on iTunes and they play perfectly gaplessly on the iPod 5G. The import is a very easy process, unlike the hoops you have to jump through to import an album gaplessly into SonicStage (DEVIL! BEAST!! GET YE FROM MY SYSTEM!!!), for example.

I also tried the same two tracks as (I think) LAME-encoded MP3 files and they did play with a small gap/click. Sounds like the MP3 frame gap so it's possible that iTunes isn't respecting the LAME exact-length header. I'll try and investigate at the weekend whether LAME's nogap option solves the problem and/or whether iTunes-encoded MP3 files work properly. It's also possible I didn't encode the files properly so I'll double-check that.

It's great news, though. Finally there is a high capacity player from a major vendor (that hasn't gone out of business) which does gapless playback without requiring you to re-rip all of your music (assuming you were sensible enough to rip into a lossless format and thus can batch-convert into something that iTunes will accept -- if you weren't then now's the time to do that once and for all!).

Now my only hassle is getting my folder.jpg album art into WMA and MP3 tags that iTunes will recognise. MP3 tags can be done via a few tools and it looks like I'll have to write my own quick hack to write the WMA tags (looks very simple, though, probably do it after work this evening). (Mp3Tag does both in theory but I found it messed up on a lot of my files. Something I need to report to the author.)

I may now switch from Rockbox to the Apple firmware for the improved battery life (and Zuma!!). I'll miss my WPS theme (the iPod GUI is plain and pretty fugly, IMO) and I think it's crap that Apple still don't have an equaliser that does anything other than presets, but I can live with both. USB MSC would be nice but I doubt we'll ever see it given how much Apple want to lock people into iTunes and get them buying other stuff from the stores. I can live with that as well, although I will really miss being able to wall-off all my comedy, singles and assorted random crap from my albums.

That reminds me, there's a "Compilation" flag and setting in iTunes/iPod which appears to do the right thing with various artists albums... I haven't tested it yet so I expect it doesn't actually work (since nobody has so far got VA right, god dammit!) but on paper it does sound right so here's hoping.
Bit the shed again. Typical.
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fondy44 2006-09-13, 05:31 #24
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Listening to a live album encoded with LAME 3.96-APS, there's the slightest hint of a gap or something, but I honestly didn't notice it until about seven tracks into the album (and that was only after reading Nudel's post and trying to listen out for the transition).
The way the quick-scroll feature was described, it sounded a lot like the alphabet list that the Karma uses when scrolling through albums, etc, but no such luck. Basically all this feature does is pop up a large letter showing where you are alphabetically in the list of tracks you're scrolling through at the moment. Maybe the 5.5g-only "search feature" will be more like the Karma's navigation.
RubenNYC 2006-09-13, 05:51 #25
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Gizmodo posted a picture of the Search screen:

[Image: http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/IMG_3596-thumb.JPG]

Not the same as the initial letter browsing on the Karma, though I wish the Karma had this, too.
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crunchyfrog (Moderator) 2006-09-13, 06:06 #26
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Quote by Nudel:
I may now switch from Rockbox to the Apple firmware for the improved battery life (and Zuma!!).

If it's good enough for the Guru of Gapless, I think I'm probably sold.  But I hate myself for it.
...because I am not a Special Snowflake.
Doads 2006-09-13, 06:57 #27
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nothing really to add, save to say that I'm sticking with Karma till this is clearer, but thanks all for the best thread in ages.
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radish 2006-09-13, 07:23 #28
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I've been reading more of the comments at hydrogenaudio and dapreview, and I think I'm convinced. Some people mention issues with non-lame mp3s or non-itunes aacs, but the several people have confirmed that it does read the lame tags (although at import time, and it rewrites the data in it's own format) and it does do perfect gapless. I've also heard that it works on some older ipods (5g and 4g photo have been mentioned) so I might try it out on my fiance's first to see how it goes.
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nudel 2006-09-13, 12:00 #29
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Quote by radish:
but the several people have confirmed that it does read the lame tags (although at import time, and it rewrites the data in it's own format) and it does do perfect gapless
Maybe I had problems with my MP3 test files because they were already in the library. I didn't try importing fresh LAME MP3s, but I plan to at the weekend.

When I loaded iTunes 7 for the first time it said it was analysing the existing music for gapless playback but it didn't seem to do a very good job with those two MP3s (which were all that was in my iTunes library at the time).
Bit the shed again. Typical.
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nudel 2006-09-13, 12:08 #30
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In reply to post #26
Quote by crunchyfrog:
If it's good enough for the Guru of Gapless, I think I'm probably sold.  But I hate myself for it.

Even if it turns out Apple's firmware sucks (which doesn't look the case, but I need to test more albums to be sure), there's always Rockbox. I've been using Rockbox since March or so and it's great. Apart from the need for modal volume control, due to lack of physical buttons, (so you can't easily reduce the volume before you start playing a track or while in a menu) I don't think there's anything wrong with the iPod hardware and it's certainly good storage for the price and a fine form factor given the storage.

Now I've just gotta get my music into AAC format. If only I had 60gig free on this computer, that would be so much easier!
Bit the shed again. Typical.
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