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Rio Karma with 128GB SSD ... the final frontier
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uff 2010-03-24, 19:10 #1
Member since Nov 2008 · 17 posts · Location: Turkey
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Subject: Rio Karma with 128GB SSD ... the final frontier
OK.. KingSpec 128GB SSD replacing the 64GB SSD in Rio Karma.....
Perfect replacement again. Original Hitachi 20GB HDD, 64GB SSD and this one are all exact same size.

Installation went like a breeze and this marks end of the road for me.
Now it's serious music and enjoying time.
Long live Karma! :)

Greetings from Turkey.

[Image: http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8152/67590209.th.jpg] [Image: http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2260/26603314.th.jpg] [Image: http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9990/35742577.th.jpg] [Image: http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/71/52733798.th.jpg] [Image: http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6499/10410731.th.jpg]

Here is direct link to my used 64G SSD drive on sale here as I've no further need for it:
http://www.riovolution.org/post/15810
Nintendj 2010-04-18, 12:04 #2
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Envy
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straycat 2010-05-28, 11:44 #3
User title: mimiihu
Member since Aug 2008 · 85 posts · Location: Portugal
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/me steals misterious music device from uff and vanishes in a puff of smoke.
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Pond 2010-06-13, 03:31 #4
Member since Feb 2007 · 7 posts · Location: Cambridge, UK
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So does your 128GB drive work?

In a moment of madness I took the plunge and bought the same unit. I was going for 64GB but the 128GB was less than twice the price on top, so seemed like a better deal :-)

It kind of works. In recovery mode, it takes a lot longer for the OS to recognise and print details about the SSD than it did with the hard disc. It seems like a power up issue; the OS will be powering the drive up and down as if it were spinning a magnetic drive up and down, but the SSD seems to take a fair bit longer to 'wake up' than the magnetic drive it replaces. I even get timeouts trying to connect from Rio Music Manager sometimes, but subsequently, it works fine.

I've loaded over 14,500 tracks onto the player and hit the maximum number of tracks limit. Individually, they play OK; I can skip through very large MP3 files (300MB, 120 minute) nearly instantaneously; it all seems OK. Except now and again, there's a very long pause while seeking - again, my guess is that the Karma is "spinning up" the drive.

That would be OK, except it falls over when trying to play all tracks. At around 6000 tracks, it could play the whole library fine. At around 8000 or above, it never seems to complete the process. It just hourglasses. I left it overnight - still no luck; had to force-reset it. With the old 60GB hard disc in the same unit, I could shuffle-play all 13,000 tracks on the unit with no trouble at all. With the SSD, it seems to take much longer to play anything and basically can't seem to figure out how to play a large playlist at all.

I transplanted the drive into another Karma to check things - same results. Setting the jumps to cable select or master makes no difference.

Is this consistent with your experience, or does it look like I have a faulty / incompatible SSD? (It's an identical looking KingSpec part with the same model number).

Hypothesis: My best guess is that when attempting to play a group of tracks above a certain size, the Karma has to do so much processing that it takes a long time in pure number crunching and reaches a drive spin-down timeout, so the drive is parked. Meanwhile, the Karma keeps chewing through the playlist. Some time later, it expects to be able to read more data to keep processing the playlist operation, but the drive is spun down; the drive comes up, but because the SSD takes so long to do this, some over-sensitive part of the lower level OS times out the data read operation and the higher level software receives a failure it does not handle, leaving it stuck in an hourglass state.
Pond (on behalf of myself, not my employer) at pond.org.uk.
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uff 2010-06-14, 11:37 #5
Member since Nov 2008 · 17 posts · Location: Turkey
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@Pond.

Nope... all seems to be working quite fine with my 128gb ssd actually.

If that issue you mention does not happen with your 60G HDD then a defective SSD sounds more likely.
I wouldn't say incompatibility issue because there are no such thing with mine.
Maybe I have around 3k files not 14k? Maybe most of them are FLACs? I don't know but I'd try to get SSD that replaced if I were you.
For the hypothesis part, maybe an ex-Karma engineer can answer that.

Only waiting I experience is that slight-pausing while seeking inside the song which happens at totally random times..it's like a half-second pause, when you get used to receive instant reaction from the drive you notice the wait.
The rate of this happening is about 1/50 perhaps even less.
And it looks like this thing is related to Karma's software not to hard disk hardware.
When I immediately seek back-forth inside same song it does not do it again, and same thing happened to me with all the drives I had 20GB HDD, 40GB HDD, 64GB SSD and 128GB SSD.
Although this never happened with choosing and playing a song... only while seeking inside a song.
Also it does not matter if it's MP3 or FLAC.
Any soul can explain this?
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Pond 2010-06-15, 06:14 #6
Member since Feb 2007 · 7 posts · Location: Cambridge, UK
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Thanks for your reply. Interesting - I was going to write off having the drive work in the Karma and find another use for it. Instead, I've ordered a very cheap 3.5" -> 2.5" adapter board so I can hook the SSD up to my desktop machine and do some proper testing on it. Not sure how well I'll do at getting a replacement via eBay if it turns out to be faulty, but we'll see! :)
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renaud 2011-01-17, 10:19 #7
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Hi,
I've had a similar issue with a 64gb Kingspec SSD, so assuming that it is the same problem I don't think the 128gb size is the culprit.
Here are my observations: I was getting symptoms similar to those descibed by Pond: erratic behaviour in recovery mode (sometimes the disk shows up after a wait, sometimes not at all), USB timeouts, freezes while playing, only more severe (too often for the player to be useable). With the SSD freshly plugged in (Karma still opened), everything works fine. As soon as I put the screws, which attach the LCD and HDD/SSD to the main board, the symptoms are back. I noticed that when the screws are attached, the SSD is not perfectly parallel to the connector.
So my guess is that the SSD is more sensitive to the quality of the connection than either the HDD or the CF/IDE adapter, which I have used previously. In my case the problem was solved by using a spare motherboard, on which the SSD sits flush against its connector.
Hope this helps.
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straycat 2011-03-04, 10:37 #8
User title: mimiihu
Member since Aug 2008 · 85 posts · Location: Portugal
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one my karmas got a swollen battery and since i already opened the puppy, i might as well upgrade it to maximum capacity.
just to make sure these are the right parts and if it's a standard remove/replace operation or if i need any special care. thanks.

kingspec 1.8" pata ide 128GB ssd
http://www.memoryc.co.uk/products/description/128GB_KingSp…

battery 2200 mAh 3.7V
http://www.batteryupgrade.com.pt/shopBrowser.php#/assortme…
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M0tah 2011-03-07, 10:22 #9
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Looks good to me.  Those Kingspec SSDs should be drop-in replacements for the Karma's hard drive.  Also, you probably already know this, but you're going to have to do some soldiering in order to replace the battery.
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straycat 2011-03-07, 13:56 #10
User title: mimiihu
Member since Aug 2008 · 85 posts · Location: Portugal
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thanks m0tah.
yes, my doubt on the battery was the 2200 mAh bit but i guess as long as the voltage is right, more capacity can't hurt.
it's always safe to double check with you guys. thanks again.
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dapreview 2011-05-24, 19:51 #11
Member since Dec 2006 · 80 posts · Location: Lenexa, KS
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1.8" kingspec 128gb ssd (pata) is ~$300 on ebay. 128gb CF is $900+.

also the 64gb model is available through an Amazon seller for $140
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B003F1C9D…?ie=UTF…
This post was edited 2 times, last on 2011-05-30, 03:41 by dapreview.
daidupso 2011-05-28, 17:01 #12
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Subject: CF vs SSD IDE
CF's are more versatile than the SSD.  IDE is fading out to SATA.  If your Karma breaks, you can salvage the CF card and use it in many devices along with the proper adapter.
daidupso 2011-05-29, 14:49 #13
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In reply to post #1
Subject: 128gb CF card yields 112gb of Space...Why?
I saw a photo of a Rio Karma showing available space of 112gb on a 128gb CF card.  Nothing on the card.  That is a huge waste of space.  Why?
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dapreview 2011-05-29, 20:23 #14
Member since Dec 2006 · 80 posts · Location: Lenexa, KS
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http://www.brettbits.com/Text/MissingHardDriveSpace/

a 128gb drive should yield ~119gb usable at 7% "loss".
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flattop100 2011-05-31, 07:50 #15
User title: Aural Fixation
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Subject: Hotrodded Karma
Slow database?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/31/sandisk-outs-faster-u10…
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