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ipods are gapless...
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nudel 2006-09-21, 11:37 #91
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In reply to post ID 3078
Neat site. The size isn't as bad as I'd imagined, it's slightly deeper and slightly thinner than a 60GB iPod. But it's still waaaaay too big for a 15GB player.
Bit the shed again. Typical.
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jaw2ek 2006-09-21, 12:19 #92
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This doesn't look so big to me:

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I rather like the size.  The design I'm still not sure about.  I could live with 15GB, but don't think I should have to.

EDIT:  Hey! just noticed that this isn't in the Vibez thread.  Sorry.  Should it be moved?
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nudel 2006-09-21, 13:04 #93
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Oh yeah, the size would be fine, if it had 30-100GB of storage. 15GB is *so* 2001, unless it's in something really tiny, which that aint.

Still, if I only had 15GB of music it'd probably be ideal.
Bit the shed again. Typical.
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dgerow 2006-09-21, 17:28 #94
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Quote by nudel:
Still, if I only had 15GB of music it'd probably be ideal.

You *do* have 15GB of music.  It's called 24k.
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nudel 2006-09-22, 00:56 #95
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Quote by dgerow:
You *do* have 15GB of music.  It's called 24k.

Heh, I've got some 64kbps Super ATRAC Type-R Model III Plus Blowjobs & Teacakes Edition (or whatever the hell Sony call their latest codec) tracks on my NW-407 and they're not too bad. For very occasional listening. On a very noisy tube train.
Bit the shed again. Typical.
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gorman 2006-09-23, 03:32 #96
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Quote by nudel on 2006-09-22, 00:56:
Heh, I've got some 64kbps Super ATRAC Type-R Model III Plus Blowjobs & Teacakes Edition (or whatever the hell Sony call their latest codec) tracks
ROTFL!!!!! You sir are really bad. You just made me spurt orange juice out of my nose... hahahahahaha!!!
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Einkoro (Administrator) 2006-09-23, 08:03 #97
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Now the question is, where does one get a black iPod dock for the new ones? White does not exactly match black, which all my PC stuff is in. :|
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luketabor 2006-09-23, 10:33 #98
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Just get a 3rd party dock
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Einkoro (Administrator) 2006-09-23, 20:07 #99
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Quote by luketabor:
Just get a 3rd party dock

There are 3rd party black docks for less than $69? I thought Apple's dock was a rip, but damn!

Edit:
Hot, I want it -

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This post was edited on 2006-09-23, 20:12 by Einkoro.
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jaw2ek 2006-09-24, 19:19 #100
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In reply to post ID 3046
Quote by RubenNYC on 2006-09-20, 20:05:
Could you do me a favor and test this out with "Chump" and "Longview" from Dookie?  The Karma never gets this transition quite right with mp3, only Vorbis and FLAC work perfectly.  I'm wondering if Apple was able to improve on this.


OK, so I did.  I borrowed my father-in-law's IPOD 5G.  Only a month old and updated with the latest (gapless) firmware. I started by ripping and encoding both songs in itunes using both 160 vbr AAC and 160 vbr MP3 (with true stereo).  I also ripped and encoded both songs using lame 3.96 (haven't ugraded because I've been using mostly ogg for my Karma) with foobar2000 (0.9.3) front end. 

I loaded all into the IPOD and started playing.  The itunes encoded files seemed to work fine right away, even with skipping to the end of Chump and listening for the gap (or lack thereof).  I tried the same with the lame-encoded files and there was a noticeable gap.  This gap was still there after several listens.  I decided to try letting the files play completely through once and then listen again.  Lo and behold, no gap!

Now, what I did was to record snippets of the ipod playing each of these encodes using my laptop's mic input and dbPoweramp's aux recorder.  Each recording was started 16 seconds from the end of Chump and recorded 7 seconds into Longview.  Each was recorded to level 4 FLAC, then encoded to 128 lame MP3 using dbPoweramp, with a 1 sec fade in on each so they would all sound about the same.

None of these have gaps that I can tell.  What do you all think?

IPOD Gapless -- Chump to Longview -- itunes AAC
IPOD Gapless -- Chump to Longview -- itunes MP3
IPOD Gapless -- Chump to Longview -- LAME MP3
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RubenNYC 2006-09-25, 03:29 #101
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Thanks, Jaw.  I'm a bit surprised: Both mp3 rips sound perfect to me.  (I expected AAC to work.)  I'll have to listen to it more closely later, but so far I don't notice any of the microsecond clipping I hear with mp3 on Karma.  I suspect a big thank you to URKE is in order :)
radish 2006-09-25, 06:59 #102
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Quote by RubenNYC:
Thanks, Jaw.  I'm a bit surprised: Both mp3 rips sound perfect to me.  (I expected AAC to work.)  I'll have to listen to it more closely later, but so far I don't notice any of the microsecond clipping I hear with mp3 on Karma.  I suspect a big thank you to URKE is in order :)

I've been using my ipod for a few days now and I'm convinced. 90% of the music I listen to is mixed and believe me - I have an ear for gaps, pops, mistimings or anything else. It's as good as the Karma is with Vorbis (which is to say, perfect). The Karma's mp3 problems must come down to a bug in how the tags are read, because it never adds a gap but consistently clips the end of the outgoing track by a frame or so. Apple obviously just figured out how to read the tag properly :)
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jaw2ek 2006-09-25, 07:30 #103
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Quote by radish:
The Karma's mp3 problems must come down to a bug in how the tags are read, because it never adds a gap but consistently clips the end of the outgoing track by a frame or so. Apple obviously just figured out how to read the tag properly :)

I thought that the Karma's gapless was competely in hardware, not from tags. 

When I had mostly mp3s on my Karma (now reripped with vorbis), I thought the gapless worked pretty good.  Any clipping seemed to get better on subsequent listens.

I use vorbis now, not so much for the gapless as for the sound quality.  I use -q 4.7 (150kbps).  I've ABX'd lots of these in foobar2000 and only rarely am I able to distinguish from the original CD.  Of course, I don't have very good headphones nor do I think my ear is that sensitive.  Originally I dreaded using vorbis because of the hit to the battery.  But now my battery is pretty weak and I decided that its better to cram more music on.

All in all, I'm pretty impressed by the ipod gapless, but still like my Karma.
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radish 2006-09-25, 10:57 #104
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Quote by jaw2ek:
I thought that the Karma's gapless was competely in hardware, not from tags. 
What does "in hardware" mean?  Everything's software, whether it reads tags or not.

Anyway, my understanding is that Karma reads and uses the XING VBR header (which is where LAME stores tracklength information) if present, and otherwise uses a "silence removal" algorithm to try and guess where the end is. I never bothered testing the latter, but with my LAME encoded MP3s (which are perfectly gapless in winamp, foobar, etc) there was clipping in every transition - no gap, just a bit missing. Not a big deal as I used Vorbis anyway, and the gapless for that format works fine.

All in all, I'm pretty impressed by the ipod gapless, but still like my Karma.
Oh so do I - I mean I hate myself for even owning an iPod. But now it does a pretty good job of gapless I can't ignore the fact that my Karma's battery is getting old, it's disk is only 20GB and the screen is kinda pokey compared to more modern players. I'm not really impressed by the gapless support on the ipod because it should have been done a long time ago - they're just catching up with what should be standard features. I am impressed with 80GB and 20hr battery life for the price I paid.
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jaw2ek 2006-09-25, 12:22 #105
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Quote by radish:
What does "in hardware" mean?  Everything's software, whether it reads tags or not.

Anyway, my understanding is that Karma reads and uses the XING VBR header (which is where LAME stores tracklength information) if present, and otherwise uses a "silence removal" algorithm to try and guess where the end is.

I was recalling something from memory...obviously its faulty
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